Post Office legal chief had said sub-postmasters should quit if they don’t like Horizon

A Post Office legal chief once told colleagues sub-postmasters who were unhappy with Horizon could quit.

Rodric Williams made the remarks in relation to a request from journalist Nick Wallis in December 2014, ahead of a One Show programme on Horizon, the inquiry heard.

Mr Williams, who was a litigation lawyer for the Post Office at the time, told colleagues in the organisation’s press team: “We don’t need to do research on Horizon – it’s the system we provide to our agents and require them to use. If agents don’t like it they can choose not to provide services for us.

“The vast majority of our agents and other users work with it just fine and we’re not required to bespoke our point of sale accounting system to the whims of each individual agent.”

Commenting specifically on a request for data that showed Horizon was loved and trusted by sub-postmasters, Mr Williams, who is now a head of legal for dispute resolution and brand at the Post Office, also wrote: “This is puerile. The best I can think of is to show that agents aren’t voting against Horizon with their feet.”

More than 900 sub-postmasters were wrongfully prosecuted after the faulty software reported fictional shortfalls on their accounts.

On Thursday, Lee Castleton, who was left bankrupt after being pursued through the civil courts for an alleged £25,000 shortfall, said that Mr Williams should not be allowed to keep his current job.

He told The Telegraph: “He should absolutely not continue to hold his role.”

Mr Castleton, who was played by Will Mellor in the ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office, added: “This is the reason why so many people feel re-criminalised going in to ask for money – so if anybody feels re-criminalised in that scenario because of people like that then those people don’t deserve to be in those jobs.”

Meanwhile Seema Misra, whose conviction was overturned in 2021 but is still waiting for compensation, said: “He has clearly said some disparaging things about sub-postmasters.”

The former sub-postmistress, who was pregnant when she was sent to prison for six counts of false accounting and one of theft in 2010, said: “In this kind of situation, the Government really needs to step in and make sure that people like Mr Williams aren’t involved in the compensation process.”

Last month, the Business and Trade Committee recommended that the Post Office’s involvement in any financial redress schemes should end.

Horizon victim Chris Head, formerly Britain’s youngest sub-postmaster, said: “The evidence today validates everything that postmasters have been saying about the culture of denial in the Post Office which is evidently still there.”

On Thursday, Mr Williams denied treating a BBC documentary about sub-postmasters as “a joke” when he was asked about a December 2014 email from a colleague who described a request for a response sent by a journalist as having a “breathtakingly facetious tone”.

Mr Williams replied to his colleague Patrick Bourke, then the Post Office’s government affairs and policy director, by saying: “I swear you are the only person I’ve met more cynical than me, and then by some considerable margin.”

Mr Bourke then responded by saying he took “that as a serious badge of honour”, which Mr Williams then said was “as intended”.

Yet when asked by Jason Beerk KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, if he was treating the issue “as a joke”, Mr Williams said, “No, far from it” and went on to say that you can look back at an email sent nine years ago and “regret the expression”.

Mr Beer then asked: “So we are to put that in the banter category? Top bants between mates?”

“I’d say, yes,” Mr Williams replied, laughing nervously.

Referring to a request for stats on how many sub-postmasters trusted Horizon, Mr Williams told a colleague in the Post Office’s press team: “We don’t need to do research on Horizon – it’s the system we provide to our agents and require them to use. If agents don’t like it they can choose not to provide services for us.”

Later, the inquiry was shown an email which revealed how the Post Office attempted to “suppress” its guidelines for investigating sub-postmasters when a claimant’s lawyers requested them, the inquiry has heard.

The October 2016 correspondence from Amy Prime, a solicitor at Bond Dickinson LLP, said this would be done “in a way that looks legitimate”.

Ms Prime wrote: “For now, we’ll do what we can to avoid disclosure of these guidelines and try to do so in a way that looks legitimate.”

Asked whether he agreed with this approach, Mr Williams told the inquiry: “I think I say this in my statement, I have no recollection of this email, which is regrettable.”

While not calling for Mr Williams to lose his job, Prof Richard Moorhead, a law and ethics professor who has written extensively on the Horizon scandal, said: “Mr Williams’ current roles, especially any involvement in compensation and decisions on appeals, need addressing.”

A Post Office spokesman said: “We don’t comment on individuals but it is vital that those giving evidence at the inquiry do so fully and truthfully so Sir Wyn Williams and his team gather all the information that they need.

“The Post Office will follow whatever the Government determines is the right course of action regarding the mechanisms for paying redress.”

They added: “Our sole aim is that every victim receives, as soon as possible, the redress that they have too long awaited.”

A Department for Business and Trade spokesman said: “The Government set up the Horizon Inquiry to get to the bottom of this scandal and it would not be right for us to comment on its work whilst the inquiry is ongoing.”