Anneliese Dodds: ‘Labour are very good at losing elections people expect us to win’
Many of us will have woken up to the soft Scottish burr of Anneliese Dodds – the Labour Party chairman and shadow secretary of state for women and equality – on the Today programme last week welcoming yet another defecting Tory MP.
This time it was former Conservative Natalie Elphicke, the Member of Parliament for Dover and Deal, who stunned the political firmament with her defection to Labour.
But while Dodds was positive about the news many of her colleagues were not. With many on Labour’s front benches condemning Elphicke’s support for her philandering husband Charlie, a Tory MP found guilty of sexually assaulting two women in 2020. (Elphicke had defended him saying he was an “easy target” for false allegations because he was “attractive” – she apologised for those remarks this week.)
Does Dodds regret being so warm about the defector? “Elphicke is, of course, the third Conservative MP now to have decided that the Conservative Party can’t deliver the kind of change she wants to see in her community,” she says. Really? “Natalie Elphicke’s statement was very clear about why she’s taken that decision, obviously, on issues of migration and security and issues of housing … She particularly talks about the situation for children in temporary accommodation in Dover. Rightly, sadly, there’s been no improvement on this. It’s gotten worse.”
But what about the pushback – how can she be so sanguine when even Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Leader of the House, is joking that she, Mordaunt, is too Left-wing to be a Labour member, in a jibe at Elphicke’s hard-Right credentials? I mean we know that Labour is trying to appeal to Tory voters, but surely there are limits to the party’s broad church?
“Natalie is absolutely part of the Labour party’s broad church,” Dodds insists. “She is taking a long hard look at the Tories and deciding they haven’t delivered on what they promised.” So why are her own colleagues so incensed? Again the flat bat. “My colleagues when they read her statement would find any qualms they have would be dispelled.”
This is classic Dodds. Sticking to the party line doggedly. She is not Labour’s most charismatic frontbencher but this quietly spoken, highly rigorous, former academic and MP for Oxford East is going to loom large in all of our lives if Starmer, as expected, wins the next election.
Why? Because Dodds is in charge of a brief – equalities – which is at the heart of Labour’s plans for government. Dodds recently published a pamphlet for the Fabian Society entitled Equal Footing: Women, Race and Diversity. In it she writes: “If Labour wins the next election, I will become the UK’s first ever secretary of state for women and equalities. That means having a politician at the top table dedicated to advocating for equality and making sure fairness is embedded in every facet of government policymaking ... it is clear the political Right can never achieve this.”
We meet at a swanky women’s business conference in Houndsditch in the heart of the City of London, organised by the Chartered Management Institute. The role of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) is at the centre of the agenda. In America there has been recent judicial pushback on such schemes; US universities are no longer allowed to recruit students who are Black or poor, for example, just for those qualities.
Many blame DEI for institutionalising so-called wokeness in global business and penalising those who don’t subscribe to its tenets. But here in the heart of London’s business community, Dodds and Angela Rayner, Labour’s deputy leader, are putting it at the heart of their pitch to business.
Rayner, in smart khaki trousers and floral silk shirt, kicks off the day’s proceedings by telling the assembled great and good (including Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh): “I am privileged to be in a room of people who know how to make business a better place. Women at work are overlooked, undervalued and underestimated. Working women face barriers which stop them reaching their true potential. These barriers can be shattered only by cultural change driven by business and legal change driven by government.”
Smiling broadly at the 300 female (and male) leaders, from across the private and public sectors, she praises the “diversity of the audience” and continues: “You are leading the way in creating diverse and creative workplaces. Business is leading the way with DEI and the Tories are failing to keep up. You say to me when I talk about things like menopause policies: ‘Ange we get it, we’re already doing it.’ Business is light years ahead of this government.”
‘This cynical approach to equality’
During our interview later that morning, Dodds, as befits a woman with a first-class degree in PPE from Oxford and years as an academic studying government (as a former MEP she is obsessed by what we can learn from other countries) echoes Rayner’s call, but with more nuance.
“I think the vast majority of businesses understand the strong business case for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion; for ensuring that they are valuing the talent in their organisation and that they’re open to new talent as well.”
In Equal Footing, she outlines how the Tory Government’s approach to equality “extends only so far as they can use equalities issues to stoke political division … This cynical approach to equality is particularly surprising given the emerging consensus, based on the evidence that removing barriers to opportunity is critical to face up to arguably the UK’s biggest challenge – our low levels of economic growth.” Closing the employment gap that Black, Asian and minority ethnic people face “could add almost £36 million to our economy”.
In a similar vein, she tells me about a UN Women report that shows “how all OECD countries could boost their GDP by over $6 trillion if they all matched Sweden’s high female employment rate” adding that “rich countries are losing some 15 per cent of potential GDP due to women’s under-employment.”
So what is she going to do about it? “In the UK labour market participation by women between 50 and 64 has actually gone down in recent years. Around £7 billion of additional economic output could be released to the UK economy if the 157,00 women in this cohort who have left work since the pandemic returned to the labour market.” She takes a hurried bite of lunch, explaining she is tired, coming straight off the back of campaigning hard for the local elections.
She tells me how getting companies to keep older women on rather than making them redundant as they hit 50 is one of her passions. “About a year ago, I launched what I called a conversation with women in the 40s, 50s and 60s [Queenagers] about the workplace issues they are facing; so many different pressures, from being sandwich carers [looking after sick or elderly relatives, as well as their own children] – there are half a million women in that situation – and healthcare issues, with about a fifth of of these midlife women who have left the labour market on NHS waiting lists.”
These findings are a key part of Labour’s New Deal for Workers. “We’re focusing on implementation; we’ll publish draft legislation on this within 100 days of being elected. Retaining midlife women is key to the economy and the labour market.”
Why does she think this cohort of midlife women have been ignored for so long but are now creeping up the agenda? “Because finally we are seeing some women of this age coming into senior roles in business, in media and in politics. That is creating a strong push now for change. It’s personal.’’ Dodds is 46. She points to all the Queenagers in powerful positions in the Labour Party: “I’m working with Rachel Reeves [45] the shadow chancellor and Tulip Siddiq [41] on financial services issues, Liz Kendall [52] on work and pensions.” And Rayner, of course, who is 44.
“Did you know that the gender pay gap for women in their 50s and 60s is nearly four times worse than for women in their 30s? This is finally receiving the focus that’s required; now we need practical policy and implementation. Of course the reduced economic output is massive but it’s even broader than that. These women are the role models, they’re the ones who would be providing the support to younger colleagues.”
Dodds’ enthusiasm for business comes, she explains, from her father Keith. “I come from a small business background. As I was growing up my dad grew his accountancy company. I learnt that business isn’t separate from the community but a part of it.”
She explains how her father had “forced” her and her brother “to dress up in Victorian costumes to support local charities and always did the accounts of Keith Lodge, a local care home for children with disabilities in our town” and how she well understood the “bravery and risk-taking mentality necessary to make a success of business because my dad had had several goes at business before he made a success of accounting.”
When she talks about her family, her guard lifts and I get a sense of a funny, warm and friendly woman underneath the sometimes robot-like political mask. “I didn’t grow up in a political household with a capital P but my dad always kicked against any authority he didn’t agree with and voted for everyone over the years except for the SNP.” She is on message as ever – beating the SNP is key for Labour’s smooth ride into power; the SNP’s collapse is all upside for Dodds and Starmer.
Dodds grew up a country girl in Netherley, a rural village in Aberdeenshire and attended a private school, Robert Gordon’s College (the same school as Michael Gove). Her mother Ingrid was a nurse and a pillar of the community “friends with everyone, chatty, sociable”.
Although she left Scotland to go up to St Hilda’s (returning for a master’s degree at the University of Edinburgh before becoming a lecturer in public policy at King’s College London) she has kept her Scottish accent.
‘And we mustn’t forget about boys’
Her children, 10 and 8, “love teasing me about it and doing impressions of it when they want to wind me up. They have Oxford accents as they have always lived there.” We talk about how important it is to open the doors to opportunity through proper work experience “which shouldn’t just depend on who your mum knows or outdated thinking, we need modern career advice”. She was the victim of that herself.
“When I was at primary school I remember saying I wanted to be a doctor and the teacher said: ‘I don’t think a doctor would be a good idea, maybe you should be a nurse.’ I remember being confused because my uncle was a doctor.” We talk about how young gender stereotypes are set, how we need to praise girls for climbing trees or being leaders. “Absolutely. And we mustn’t forget boys and the challenges they are coming up against, about not feeling valued in society.”
Her husband Ed Turner is the deputy leader of Oxford Council’s Labour group and sounds like a solid family anchor while she is away in Westminster. Her lifestyle is very down-to-earth; she cycles around her constituency “people flag me down and we chat” she “takes the bus” and is a great believer in politicians being approachable to people. When I ask if she has experienced any of the kind of abuse dealt with by other female MPs, such as Jess Phillips or Dr Lisa Cameron, she says: “I don’t think it is wise to talk about security issues.”
I wonder what lit the flame of political action within her. “My first job was as a kitchen porter at my local pub restaurant, taking out bins filled with bones, which would rip from the inside. For me it was just a Saturday job for spending money [before she went to Oxford for university] but for others it was the only game in town.
“I was paid £2 an hour. I remember thinking how unfair it was, how hard it was to make ends meet and how for so many there was no way out. I also worked at a grain store collecting grain from local farmers which just sparked big questions in my mind about fairness about how these people were doing hard, exhausting work but struggling. They couldn’t save up. I went into politics to find solutions. Being an MP is the best job in the world. You can make things better.”
‘Keir Starmer always wants to listen’
Dodds backed Starmer for the leadership and has been part of his inner circle since the beginning, he even appointed her shadow chancellor (the first woman ever to hold that role) in 2020. I say that to many voters he still feels opaque, a bit of a blank slate. How does he compare to Rishi Sunak?
“Starmer always wants to listen, to us as colleagues, to the public – it is why I supported him as leader. He wants to hear directly from people, it comes naturally to Keir. I don’t see that with Rishi.” She explains that “Keir’s former life [as a lawyer and director of public prosecutions] gives him long-term strategic focus – it’s not about next week, tomorrow or next month but about setting out long-term missions and sticking to them. We saw the changes he made to the Labour Party and he will take the same approach in government; he won’t be blown off course. He is not about sound bites or Sunak boosterism, pretending everything is perfect.”
Are they busy war-gaming the big TV debates? She says not. “At the moment we are talking about how we implement and hit the ground running. He is ambitious and excited about what we can do as a country. I went to visit a net zero engine factory with him in Wales and he was so enthused by what they were doing, he has an infectious ambition about what we can do here in the UK.”
So why do the electorate still have doubts? Ever the loyalist, she replies: “They are realising he is committed, serious, comes from a working-class background, grew up with challenges around his mum’s poor health. They can empathise with him. That is not true of Rishi Sunak.”
As the MP for Oxford East, part of the university is in her constituency. I ask if she is worried about the student protests around Gaza – there is a field of tents outside the Pitt Rivers Museum – going the violent way of the American ones. She shakes her head. “I am not worried that we will see the chaos in the UK we’ve seen on US campuses because we are more tolerant. But if there is any behaviour that is anti-Semitic then that must be dealt with.”
But the situation in Gaza, and Labour’s policy on it, cost them votes at the local elections; as party chairman, what is she doing about that? “As the Labour Party it’s important we represent working people from every community. They have huge concerns around Rafah and I share that. The offensive cannot go ahead. Labour is calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.”
Where do we draw the line on what is legitimate protest? “There is the freedom to protest, but not the freedom to abuse. Threatening or unlawful behaviour falls the wrong side of the line.”
Is she confident about winning the next election? She grins. “We can be very good at losing elections people thought we would win. Think of 1992.”
Is she fearful? “No, but there is a strong determination to make sure we are staying in touch with people’s concerns. Some time ago, Keir Starmer set up a strategy around the cost of living, public services, opportunities for young people, crime and net zero and creating the green jobs of the future. The public finances are in a bad position, they have gone up 25 times under this Government, people are paying £800 a year more in tax plus their mortgages have rocketed because of Liz Truss and now the Tories want to spend £46 billion scrapping national insurance. Labour will cut taxes and put more police on the streets.” Wow, I say, that sounds very Tory. She laughs. “We need to open up opportunities for everybody.”
She returns to talking about the business conference we are at. How the business leaders all understand the case for widening inclusion, bringing in more talent to grow our economy. “There are repeated McKinsey studies that show diversity drives better outcomes. This effect [of increased diversity in management and decision making] isn’t dying out. It’s becoming more important. Which makes sense as businesses need to become more agile, more flexible.”
She is passionate about widening access to employment and talent because “businesses are very well aware of the challenges around retention and recruitment. They’re trying to act on those concerns. But I feel they haven’t had a government that is as ambitious as they are on these issues.”
In her careful, academic way, Dodds is on the same page as Rayner. Labour stands full square behind Diversity, Equity and Inclusion – particularly about getting midlife women back into the economy as a key driver in levelling up and creating economic growth.
